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joelletwo · 8 months ago

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wrestling with the 4devas bitchslap again to convince myself its fine if graveyard wins the best ep tourney: it's not the other bloggers who are wrong, it's me

not a complete response to but definitely in conversation with and asking some of the same questions again as @reductionisms's 4devas essay, which tries to square gintoki's "life doesn't need to be fun, i just need you to live" being a series-sanctioned message he's given to villains as an arc-concluding moral continuously up until 4devas with it here being an incorrect worldview that needs to be (physically) corrected by shinpachi, the straightman tonal signpost of gintama

a conflict i have been perplexed by ever since i got to this line on my first watch a year or two ago, since i've seen this line before! all over fandom! as part of the general "dont [bottom text] kill yourself" motivational messaging of gintama that i love!

and, briefly, when i hit 4devas i was also in the middle of being really frustrated by the new arc pattern i was seeing crop up: i loved the villains-turned sympathetic-turned someone worth saving by gintoki tune of the first half of gintama, but it fell massively flat for me in Yoshiwara in Flames, where i was never convinced to be on housen's side but had to watch him get a heartwarming redemptive death at the side of the woman he abused anyways.

then shortly after i had the same exact experience in Red Spider with jiraia, and i thought, if this is what gintama is gonna do with its shitty dudes from now on im gonna quit the fucking show. and then shortly after that i met jirochou and saw him cut down otose the woman he loved (under a raining sky!!! the fucking sky motifs!!! the signpost im about to watch a dude be shittily violent to women and be expected to feel sorry for him about it) and saw too much red to really take in the rest of the arc level-headedly or care about anything in it lol.

so it was written off in my mind as the 'otose almost gets fridged' arc until i rewatched it this week. then i had to remember, oh yeah, there's a ton of political maneuvering fakeouts in this arc that i never actually squared back with how the plot presented itself prior to the reveals, so i'd still been thinking about the "fakeout" plot. then i read the manga version with all the "truths" in mind from the start, and finally i felt like i could understand what this arc is doing a little better.

(way) tldr (4.4k words. sorry): do i love this arc? eh. do i still hate it? eh. but it's doing stuff!

first, i was able to see an echo in all the "actually i was planning to betray you the whole time" "actually i was working to help you the whole time" plot beats of what sorachi does with the larger edo/universe story further into the back half of the manga. if i ever sound like i didnt enjoy or wasnt convinced by the execution of these "reveals," it's because i didnt and wasnt, lol. but it's fun that he had fun with them i guess.

the arc starts with pirako ingratiating herself into yorozuya, then having a classic "bump into you and pretend to be injured to extort you" encounter w her dad's gang. to resolve this without escalating into violence, gintoki... does it back to them, which is really funny. but thus the tone is set for the arc of: DISHONEST APPROACHES TO CONFLICT.

pirako isnt honest about her overall intentions the, like, seven different times that she "admits her real ones." kada plays at peacekeeper in the devas while being the ultimate person scheming to get the upper hand over everyone else in the end. (she's also secretly harusame, evil amanto outsider who acts as a unifying force for the kabukicho fighting itself to band together against and expel: sorachi's favorite move! the problem was never internal, it's the shadowy REAL antagonists who infiltrated us)

jirochou and otose are ultimately doing a pantomime of conflict to try to keep temperatures down and escalations from breaking out, so no one they care about has to get hurt. gintoki doesn't know this until the end, but he follows in their footsteps after his encounter with them in the graveyard: he plays at having given up to the rest of yorozuya so they'll leave and escape the coming kabukicho war, the same thing otose was trying with him. it fails both times. i'm really not sure why gintoki and otose thought it would work, honestly. they should know their kids are stubborn as hell.

but gintoki is in a bind because of the things he needs to protect, and all of his actions are primarily in service of that, to the detriment of how he'd prefer to act if he were less restricted. he is unsurprised and unoffended to hear saigou is only willing to warn them, not help them, because her son is in danger if she acts directly. all four devas are, seemingly, being mutually restrained this way, holding back even when blatantly manipulated to do so. the other constant of this arc: everyone is dishonest, and no one wants to risk losing what they have.

gintoki understands that! of course! he's had to make that calculus before, after all :)

and this arc is just one big cliff scene echo: the entire graveyard scene pushing gintoki to emotional regression because he thinks he's losing another parent figure, one he's just seen the Gintoki Figure of the arc cut down, no less (takasugi stolen valor when he goes berserk against him and only ends up uselessly bleeding out on the ground about it, honestly). otose goes into this willingly so gintoki can live. he accepts this decision because he values protecting her values (her kids living on) and is briefly broken by it (the story says, before giving him shinpachi to "put him back on track"). prior to the bitchslap, after saying he just wants them to live, even if it has to be without him, he says:

i dont have a good understanding of when we start getting reveals of gintoki's backstory versus foreshadowing because i went into gintama already knowing most of it, but definitely by the recent red spider where we get our first real look at (or really, first listen to) shouyou. but here we actually get some of what gintoki felt about it, which he keeps closely guarded even when the whole truth comes out: he's done his best to survive having lost, but it was so unbearable he can't face losing again.

(also, honorable mention backstory echo, the person calling him a brother sets his home on fire to drive him and his parent figure out of town. as i liveblogged: this one would really hurt gintoki if gintoki cared about anything oboro ever did!)

but with the shinpachi story-rerouting, they get the good end, keep everyone (otose, yorozuya, all of kabukicho, even pirako and her dad - everyone but kada) safe without having to sacrifice a single thing, even keep gintoki hopeful for this outcome. so, as goose points out, we are left to understand that there could have been a good end on the cliff, that something is different here than there, and, skipping a lot of math, that that is the people around gintoki.

which i do find really funny to imagine as a slam on takasugi and katsura. sorry you kids suck too much, your teacher dies bc u were cringefail. but lets look at it.

everyone is dishonest, no one wants to risk what they have: gintoki rallies himself to keep fighting but is determined to do it alone. kagura and shinpachi fight him on this; they can't leave because they don't want to lose their home, they can't let him fight alone because they don't want to lose him. they're just as restricted by what they have to keep safe, but their only option is to act where everyone else's is inaction. shinpachi says:

if i may skip over the bitchslap itself for now, gintoki does consent to let his allies fight with him after it. yorozuya stands alone against saigou, who's heavily demoralized but resigned, strongarmed into fighting them by the threat to her son. but on seeing their resolve to keep protecting their own precious home and family she says:

and, to skip straight to my thought, i think this is what turns the tides back in their favor. there are more twists and turns to the fight. pirako equates what binds saigou, which she herself equates to what binds the yorozuya, to what binds her:

(with an intentional distinction that she's willing to actively destroy the others', as opposed to their purely self defensive fighting, which is echoed at some point in her distinguishing gintoki from jirochou in the same way, that jirochou not only lives to protect like gintoki but is willing to destroy in the process. i don't find that part as interesting, but it's more fuel to the power of having something to protect as a driving force as an arc theme.)

so now all three stand on the same ground, absolutely unwilling to give up what they hold dear, but all their cards are on the table. they aren't dealing in 12 dimensions of tricksy defensive pre-emptive moves anymore. they know it wouldnt work, anyways, since they all know their drives to protect are the same and no one will be talked into backing down. now they can directly duke it out and let the winner be determined that way, on strength of will. even before the actual circumstances change, the fight somehow feels freer seeing how inevitable it is. and with everything out in the open, yorozuya can now protect each other and saigou's son, taking out one side of the conflict.

(and with everything out in the open, the ultimate 4devas villain can become the single person who continues to betray the others, kada, whose further machinations - with everything out in the open! - saigou (and later yorozuya) can choose to protect pirako from. everyone wins! because everything was out in the open! do you see where i'm going)

and so we come back to the question: gintoki is corrected, the arc is rerailed to the better outcome. so is the correction justified?

what does the correction accomplish outside of its moment? most convincingly to me of goose's presented options, i also think it's done as a thematic shift, a, okay, just live was a strategy that worked before but now doesn't suffice, so we need something more.

as to why this is needed now and not earlier or later...tldr bad planning <3 but like.

we have, prior to this, a consistent thrust of arcs where gintoki teaches people to lose. as well, while we meet the harusame and we visit space and we get the barest glimpses of takasugi's weird shadowy background moves there, largely we're dealing with kabukicho characters and kabukicho stories. we see or only hear about the shogun for short comedic moments only. we've largely dropped the series intro focus on things like the shinsengumi or hasegawa acting as foreign diplomats. it's a local series, a hometown series, a kabukicho and not even an edo at large series, a personal story about gintoki making personal connections with his personal experience as a flawed person with a flawed approach to life that has let him, chronic slacker, get by on the bare minimum.

at this moment, chapter 300, we have a slow trickle of gintoki backstory starting to come out to us. we've recently expanded the story focus to include yoshiwara, which gets a callout in this arc by kada to keep it relevant. we have an arc of sorachi testing out plot beats that he'll use again for the endgame, in all the political maneuvering and alliancing and betraying and shadowy outsider space governmenting, where he's also doing a lot of echoing of that backstory that only becomes clear later. so it's possible he's thinking about shifting gears and setting up for the eventual endgame, which means getting out of the episodic cycle so things can stick.

and after this arc, to my opinion and memory, we stop getting the classic gintama flavor sympathizable'd antagonists. a lot of the bigger arcs don't even have clear Big Shot antagonists anymore, being more about the shouyoucore theme of characters fighting against themselves, or if there is one they're always explicitly part of the Shadow Government now, a unified and more daunting force than someone they can win over with an inspiring gintoki interaction.

so 4devas does act as a turning point at least in some way. and it's not possible to say this definitively, since all gintama arcs are ultimately never going to be about gintoki or his friends Actually losing something instead of beating the odds, but it does feel like theres a different flavor to, say, dekobokko with its direct look at how chars lives could be different and better and they will still choose to keep struggling as themselves. and Kintama arc definitely doesn't feel like an early days arc, like it can only resolve the way it does with a gintoki who is now able to face his past and the possibility of losing again and again and again (now with, natch, his faith that yorozuya will by his side when he does).

why now, after 300 chapters of letting it sit ignored in the back of his brain working out perfectly fine except when it doesn't (the very reminder of shouyou in a fight making him go Demon Mode, which is like regular gintoki but worse at fighting, bc he is so unprepared to think about shouyou)? well i personally am in big favor of the "take a decade off" strategy for facing problems. it worked for me too. realistically watsonianly its nice to let things percolate in the brain and do some of the processing behind the scenes until its less immediately painful. and he's made many bonds over these 300 chapters, shown in this arc when the whole town rallies behind him, that are there to support him when he needs it now and weren't there before.

realistically doylistly eh. bad planning.

and so we come back to the question: gintoki is corrected, the series as a result is rerailed to a writing space where things can start changing (leave the episodic, as you guys say, sazae-san format). it's useful in the future. so is the correction justified in terms of what comes before it? was the correction needed?

thinking about the bitchslap leads to thinking about the cliff scene leads to (sorry kagura and katsura, you guys arent really relevant here) pitting shinpachi and takasugi against each other in how they act with something on the line they can't bear to give up.

i don’t need the lesson of 4devas to apply logistically to the cliff scene. once they were set up on that chessboard, frozen in their assigned places as a backstory, it’s not like takasugi could’ve power of friendship’d his way out of being physically retrained if he decided he wanted to. it’s set up as a forced choice, it has to play out as a forced choice.

but we see that even before it’s asked of him, takasugi is willing, prepared, unbothered to give up his own life for shouyou’s. this is, goose lays out in the sequel, the cardinal sin in gintama - a teacher shouldn’t outlive their student. it would have been especially egregious to shouyou, whose whole desired life’s purpose is to raise students who can outlive him and outgrow him, take his lessons and go out into the world and do their own thing with them. takasugi doesn’t expect to do this and doesn’t seem to see a point in the possibility if shouyou isn’t back with them.

though we can also think of shouyou as a little too quickly willing to give up on the cliff - sorry, gintoki, the suicidal guy has thought about it for .02 seconds and decided the best outcome is for you to kill him even though he could get out of this no problem. maybe its no wonder gintoki gave up too. can we ask katsura what he would’ve done?

and is takasugi different from shinpachi there? he rejects the mentor’s attempt to exchange his own life for his. he’s not willing to consider a life without him.

but shinpachi is convinced no one is going to die. because they’ll be there together. incredibly naive - shinpachi and kagura, restricted to one option by what they need to protect like everyone is in 4devas, have acting as that one option because they are still free in a way gintoki and the other adults aren't. they’ve never actually experienced the impossible choice that forces you to give up, so they can act as if there isn’t one - what else would they do? why would they think to give up?

but gintoki is defined by having lived the impossible choice. its built into the foundation of him as a character and leaks out everywhere. he couldn’t have relied on his friends on the cliff because they were quite forcibly removed from the picture as an option, not by his or their choice. its written as an inevitability, logistics we find out later be damned.

if we refocus to 4devas, we can look at the Gintoki Figure for a different angle. jirochou, after he and gintoki resolve the arc conflict by being able to team up because they - say it with me - put everything out in the open, tells gintoki about his impetus for abandoning his family and coming back to his wayward life in kabukicho, the death of otose's husband.

it's, um, another now really obvious parallel to gintoki, lol. characters talk about how jirochou does everything he does in this arc to try to atone for his failure to both otose and tatsugorou, and i guess thats true bc he was written that way but he has an odd way of showing it, but anyways he resolves that, despite his guilt over this, all he can do now is keep living and keep protecting what they loved together. he's come to the usual gintama message all on his own, reinforcing that this is the correct way to live in this series. he had his own unavoidably shitty situation, and he came to terms with it.

so then where did jirochou go wrong, in the narrative's eyes (other than abandoning one woman and their child to deal drugs in the town of his other woman while ignoring her)? was there a point he could've changed how their trio's story played out? but he loved and trusted tatsugorou, and he was happy to step aside and let him be the one by their otose's side. i doubt he would have been happy stealing her away even if it were possible.

but if we look at the resolution tool of 4devas... he never put everything out in the open!!! everyone knows he loved otose, but in more of an open secret way. in classic romance plot, he never confessed for second male lead rejection closure. indeed, in the closest we ever get to a main character having a romantic plot in gintama, the very ending of the arc flirts with him doing just that now that he's made a little progress with the arc message, with the entire cast of the arc expecting him to (and interrupting before he can).

but if he had when they were young. if he had been honest with his friends. could it have opened up other options that weren't available on his own, that they didnt know to offer? i have a preferred one lol. but u can get creative with all sorts of life paths that avoid tatsugorou dying that way or, at the least, jirochou feeling chained to a shameful life (living in a town he doesn't go out in to protect a woman he doesnt talk to and feeling like he doesnt deserve the family he abandoned for this) because of it.

and then if we take this and rewind back to the cliff... we get to grind my favorite ax, "shouyou shouldve told literally anyone literally anything about his deal." if gintoki knew more about shouyou, they could've faced his horrors together, the whole time. he couldve known that shouyou was being literal calling himself a demon and not internalized his own identity as one for life just because shouyou bonded with him over it. i truly genuinely think the logical conclusion of all of gintama's big messages are that shouyou and gintoki should have been more open with each other.

but i don't think sorachi thinks that. and, you know, by 4devas rules, the unriskable precious things he was protecting by staying silent were his students' humanity, and secondarily his own fragilely newly hopeful heart that literally couldnt stand another 10 millionth round of rejection (killed himself and then went on a 12 year rampage over it. girl i would too).

and takasugi really isn't dishonest about what's going on in his head when he tells us he expects to die for shouyou. that's as cards on the table as i could ask. gintoki is, a little bit, by omission. he does what i'd want him to here - tells takasugi try just not dying - but doesn't give him a reason to, and doesn't tell him he has no plans of letting anyone die for shouyou.

so what goes wrong on the cliff - shouyou is happy, gintoki is happy, oboro's even kind of happy, katsura is irrelevant - is that takasugi is blindsided (whoops) by their silent agreement that betrays the one he thought he and gintoki had. and then ruins everyone's party about it and spends the next ten years doing so for good measure.

which is also, basically, what shinpachi is going through that prompts the bitchslap, too. he thought they were a team, that they had each others backs, not that gintoki is a one-way protector of them. he is blindsided by gintoki lying to and tricking them and hiding things from them. he is hurt by gintoki feeling hopeless all by himself when he could share that with them and be encouraged by their endless child optimism.

and would it need to have changed anything on the cliff? in the moment after the bitchslap, what contributes to gintoki changing his mindset is tama telling him, we trust that you're capable bc youve always shown us that, can you trust us this time? when, later in the arc, gintoki seems to regress by sending kagura and shinpachi away, he asks them to trust that he's still trusting them, relying on them to help shoulder his burden, and in return they know he's staying alive, not self sacrificing. maybe it would've helped just to feel on the same team and not shut out, to be able to trust gintoki like gintoki was trusting shouyou?

so. two paralleled instances of gintoki making a bad situation worse by keeping to himself and being too self sufficient. that feels clear cut that feels fine im okay with that as a takeaway. do i think its exactly what sorachi had in mind while writing this, as opposed to just a good series 'hey lean on your friends' moment to read cool and tug at the heartstrings? eh lol. i think theres definitely room to read takasugi into this arc (i still need to refind the takagin 4devas post...) but its not so baked in that i think he was a PRIORITY in the plotting.

but is the shinpachi SCOLDING necessary is the scolding justified... and yes its in response to life doesnt need to be fun i just want you to live. still a confusing framing i can't immediately square. but/and more immediately its directly responding. to gintoki opening up to them about his insecurities!!

which, as said, he doesnt do!! he doesnt talk about his failures! its basically like, here and to hijikata that one time and otherwise even when we know all the facts about what happened we still never hear gintoki himself talk about it. (so he really DOESNT learn the lesson here either. he stays dissociated and triggered every time utsuro comes up. he tries to solve the altana baby problem on his own. he doesnt talk to his new friends OR his old friends. bwah. gintoki. silver soul.)

so this is like. its just in the wrong order!! its just in a baffling order lol. if you want gintoki to share his burden do you need to punch him when he shares it. does it also need to sound like you're blaming him for not being capable of upholding his promise to protect anyone when thats the insecurity thats got him all discombobulated this arc in the first place (a whole set of notes i took on this that i didnt find a place for in this post)?? its so weeeeiiiiiirddd lol i dont liiikeee itttttt. theres plenty of things shinpachi can validly punch gintoki for but this is such a weird one.

so i guess. having a clearer understanding of this arc do i hate it less? YES honestly. i hate fakeout plots generally they irritate me but everything... more or less makes sense by gintama standards now that i have the whole plot in mind.

do i hate jirochou less SORT OF? i enjoy him. in his individual relationships. i like his shitty dad deal i love shitty dads. i like him pining for otose who genuinely likes him but also brings up her husband every sentence she says to him just to keep him down. i like his parallels with gintoki that they both explicitly acknowledge and find macho comfort in. hes still not theeeeeeeee most well-developed gintama antagonist but you know? i at least think otose and pirako would want to be around him after this.

do i feel like i have a clearer understanding of the bitchslap moment. NOT CONVINCED I DO. i feel like its going to be one of those things that slips in and out of my understanding like sand in cupped hands. i have a tentative understanding of it that i dont think sorachi actually had in mind. so i dont think ive solved it lol.

will i be cursed to think about 4devas forever? god i hope not. am i okay with it beating farewell shins in the polls. god i fucking hope it does. in the horrible timeline where i have to see 305 make it all the way and then lose i guess id rather it be to this one than to hijigin. consider this poll propaganda?

#sopping wet gintoki posting

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hussyknee · 4 months ago

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Being triggered by a fic feels stupid. But I really hate what this fandom does to my beloved MoC character. They keep treating him like a fuck up that has to work to be worthy of the white guy that runs away or ices people out when shit gets too real.

In this one my ADHD brown boy is a rock star trying to fill up his anxiety with drugs and casual sex. He's sent to the white guy for a kind of mentorship to straighten himself out. They spend months falling in love, even though white guy keeps turning him down every time he tries to attempt anything more intimate. Finally he outright kisses him and white guy says no, we shouldn't. He says "don't you want me?" And white dude says "no".

MoC is broken hearted and humiliated. He screens the guy's calls, goes away on tour and hits up a stranger for casual sex. The next day he finally checks his voicemail, and it's white guy apologizing for turning him down and explaining he was just scared because he liked him so much. MoC is like "oh shit" and goes back and confesses that he slept with someone. White guy acts like he betrayed him. "But you turned me down!" "I thought you cared enough about me to not be able to sleep with a stranger right afterwards." Tells MoC to fuck off.

Look. I'm ace. I'm not a fan of casual sex. I want the whole true love I-never-even-looked-at-another-person-while-pining-for-you fantasy. I hate when my ship characters talk about the sex they had with other people. I'm in this stupid fandom for the idealised romance.

That said. Fucking what??

This dipshit turned my boy down three times just because he likes to sabotage himself. He broke his heart. And then he wants him to be unable to fuck anyone else right afterwards as proof of his love?He gets to reject him and then make him sound like Ross from Friends going "We were on a break"? He won't communicate but the other person has to read his mind?

I can't even believe that the author has my own hang ups about seeing my ship fuck other people because they've written other fics where that was the case. Everyone else in this fandom seems to love the idea too. This is the first time I'm seeing it framed as a problem, let alone a deal-breaker.

MoC then spends a solid year working on himself to be healthy and responsible and prove to white guy that he's good enough to have a relationship with. He won't take his calls so MoC makes the song they worked on together into a love letter and releases it hoping he'll hear it and understand. Meanwhile white dude just writes an album about how sad he is they didn't work out. This is supposed to be romantic.

In the end MoC lays out his whole heart bare again and white guy nearly pulls his avoidant bs again but they end up together. But frankly I wish he'd get run over by a bus.

It wouldn't be triggering me so badly if it was just about one fic. But it's a pattern of hypocrisy repeated over and over again. I hate how this fucking fandom makes the white dude's self-sabotage and avoidant behaviour out to be so uwu woobie and MoC a terminal fuck up because of his impulsivity and obliviousness. He's basically the personification of ADHD so I can't tell whether they just hate all neurodivergents or just the ones of colour.

This is why I don't want representation. A character you can see yourself in is just an opportunity for white women and queers to visit microaggressions on you by proxy.

#fandom wank #fandom racism #fandom ableism #not naming the fandom bc i don't want the drama but you're welcome to guess in the replies #relationships #shipping #knee of huss

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sirenemale · 7 months ago

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💋🖼🗺 WARRIORS ASK GAME BEAM

THANK YOU FOR INDULGING MEEEEE

💋 : is there any ships out there you absolutely hate for genuinely no good reason at all. like its not problematic in the slightest, if anything it's one of the better ones, you just cannot bring yourself to enjoy it

I dont think there's any that make me see red or anything, just a lot that are really really nothing imo. I think there's a lot of kinda just for fun or sweet ships that don't really have enough chemistry for me to care abt, which is so fine I just like dynamicsss. Then again a lot of that is down to a lot of wc characters being kinda blank slates (esp side characters) i can buy into most things if someone is insane enough abt their headcannons for it.

WAIT I'm lying,and hollyleaf and fallenleaves. I think he's boring!!! he should've been more toxic genuinely. This also stemms from me being a giant hollyleaf head and liking her being a bit of a bad person, I don't really see why this relationship with some super patient ghost guy would really make her turn around on anything. She had multiple patient people in her life yknow. I think him being clingy, desperate not to lose the only cat to see him on decades, would be way more interesting. Maybe she's being eaten alive by guilt, bc she's contradicted everything she believed in and is trying to justify it to ease her own stress. And fallenleaves is like overly forgiving of it to the point it upsets her. I also just think her narrative turn around was too easy and she wasn't really taken to task by anyone which is disappointing. Like I hate the idea of Holly's turn around being in part to a pseudo ghost boyfriend who's nice to her and her learning mother hood hard bc nursing a fox cub ect. I want it to come from herself and admitting to what she chose to do in her spiral. I think part tof what really gets to her is others disappointment, and silence, and like leafpool in the berries scene where she's got this controlled kinda disappointment and grief. Like hollyleaf wants a bigger reaction to rally against to justify her own extremity but she isn't getting it. Ashfur is someone who gave that to her. she wants to be a bigger victim than she was, she can't take the idea that everything was always out of control and starclan never had anyone's interests in mind. Not just her. Or that others suffered more than her (leaf and squirrel). Idk I think having some guy try to justify it to her to keep her with him would really force her to hear how it sounds.

Also most of this is like part canon remembering and part like, projection and fan interpretation bc wc stuff is a fascinating melting pot of Nostalgia and canon, and headcanon more than any fandom I've seen before. Partly bc the maps and animations create a soft canon that ppl get into instead of the books. I'm trying to write an essay abt ittttt. I also kinda have this pet theory abt hollyleaf being written in the same veign as male characters in the series where their emotional turmoil is used to demean, punish and flanderize female characters (leafpool and squirrelflight in this circumstance) and I think it's interesting. As well as her never being really held to account for how she treated anyone, she's allowed to keep hating her mothers, she got away with murder and attempted murder ect. She also was allowed to be ambitious and never had a mate which r both things Erin's almost never let female characters do without making them into like evil hag harpies ect. I'm very interested in breaking down their specific gender Flanderization bc it's such a clear pattern they use in the books over and over bc they hate women a LOT.

Anyway I told you these would be long. I like hollyleaf regular amounts

🖼 : first amv/pmv you ever watched?

Fuckkkk. Mr brightside was a really defining one for me. I don't remember the first but duckfeathers, gamakichisora, silverwolfynight and ryulovestsute were surely there.

🗺 : first map you ever watched?

This also wasn't the first but this had such a foul grip on me. I almost wrote an essay abt it when I was like 10 or 11 or something. I wasn't allowed to bc when we handed in our song choices for review the teacher told me it was about suicide and I had no clue I was like it's actually about warrior cats. (Songs and their wc amv or map were basically 1 to 1 for me)

youtube

#smiles #warrior cats

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raytorosaurus · 2 years ago

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pls tell me you don't think disliking lynz is misogynistic lol i must've misinterpreted that

nope! it's totally fine to dislike lynz, i also don't like her myself. she's said some very questionable things and MSI grosses me out, as does her association with jimmy urine. i already know people will want to take this the wrong way so i want to make it clear that i'm not defending any of that. i'm pointing out an irritating mindless pattern of behaviour in this fandom that is immature and reductive at best and misogynistic at worst, which includes:

1. the intensity of the vitriol that is directed at her being disproportionate to most of the men ppl blog about who have done/said similar, if not much worse, things. and honestly in a lot of cases disproportionate to what she's actually done

2. the fact that i see so many people (especially on twitter) blindly jumping on the bandwagon of hating on her often without knowing what exactly it is they're hating her for - and even then, most of the reasons i see parrotted on twitter are either contextless and overexaggerated or not even one of the aforementioned valid reasons for disliking her. i don't know how to tell you this but if you believe everything on lynzuglyliar you need to reevaluate how you engage with information on the internet lol

3. the level of glee with which people hate on her, which truly smacks of old-school fandom misogyny reserved for women who marry your faves or get in the way of your favourite ship. on twitter especially it honestly truly feels like people are delighted to have a wife of the band they're "allowed" to hate on lol. i know a lot of that is coming from teenagers who will grow up and learn more self-awareness but that doesn't make it any less annoying or disappointing to see

4. the ridiculous mental gymnastics required to hate her so much while continuing to be a fan of the person who is married to her and in love with her lmao. sorry but if you truly think she's that irredeemable why are you still here

like. i hate msi and i go out of my way to avoid listening to them. but it's worth keeping in mind that the kind of shock-jock edgy gross music they wrote was not exclusive to msi in the 2000s. i hate it too and think it's stupid and counterproductive to whatever point it's supposedly trying to make but it was like. a thing for a while unfortunately. it was bad at the time and it aged even worse, but gerard and frank at the very least, and probably the others too, vocally enjoyed it. frank voluntarily chose to tour with msi and mcr performed with them multiple times and were always excited about it. if you truly think lynz's involvement with that band is indefensible, you should extend at least part of that criticism to mcr too. the amount of times i've seen people saying "omg frank hates lynz so much" is fucking ridiculous, and it's based entirely on the same kind of conjecture that led people to believe mcr didn't remain close friends after the breakup lol. if you have to make up things like that - or worse, make up and spread infidelity rumours or actual domestic abuse allegations (it's not even rare to see this on twitter) - to excuse their association with lynz/msi, you need to take a look at yourself tbh

this is partly a twitter-specific problem because that platform is literally set up to disallow meaningful or nuanced conversation but it's really exhausting to see hundreds of snippy "she's the devil" tweets and if you say anything vaguely critical of the the way fandom treats her you get immediately shot down with "why are you defending A Racist" with zero context or clarification. i hate to break it to you but if lynz is A Racist of an irredeemable level, so is gerard. hell, so is frank for blindly listening to and promoting black metal bands with nazi associations when he as a metal fan should know better and do his research. lynz's racism in question is the kind that's overwhelmingly common among liberal white women who are into witchcraft-type stuff. again, i am not condoning it, it's still wrong, but you cannot hold her to different standards than you do the guys in mcr. i'm just saying if you're able to acknowledge gerard's questionable statements and attitudes in the past, condemn them, acknowledge that he's changing and learning, but still go on liking him as a person and supporting his art...what is the reason you can't do the same for lynz.

i've seen people on twitter accuse lynz of plagiarism in an impressively tone-deaf misinterpretation of her art genre, sometimes the same people who would call gerard doing something similar a clever reference. i have literally seen people quote male members of MSI making sexually objectifying and openly misogynistic comments about lynz as some kind of gotcha saying "look, even her bandmates don't respect her" and like...if you can't see something deeply wrong with that i don't know what to tell you. i've seen COUNTLESS people bring up vague information "revealed" by her actual estranged family members on twitter after people stalked them to try to get dirt on lynz and if you think parroting back contextless one-sided information from other people's private family drama isn't a) about the least reliable source of information ever and b) deeply disgusting and inappropriate, i really don't know what to tell you

if you despise lynz to the point where you're in mcr's comments telling gerard to divorce her (again. i shouldn't have to say that this is disgusting behaviour) or booing when they perform summertime or accusing her of infidelity or abuse (which i cannot stress enough are rumours originally made up by frerard tinhatters) or anything like that, why are you even here. like what mental gymnastics are you doing to be able to remain a fan of gerard at this point. none of this is activism, if anything it's counterproductive to your point because it's indicative of the lack of critical thinking or maturity that's necessary when you're engaging with topics like casual/unconscious racism and normalised sexual abuse in the music industry

i'm probably not going to say more about this because this isn't really the hill i want to die on considering i don't even particularly like her myself but please i am begging you approach your dislike of lynz with just a little bit of critical thought and self-awareness instead of just blindly despising her for things that most of the men we blog about are also guilty of.

#the 'you' in here is the royal you im not accusing you specifically of all these things anon #i don't know what to tag this lol #answered #okay now back to fun times i habe pixels to stare at

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khaleesiofalicante · 3 years ago

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While a positivity blog is great, posing it in opposition with the "call-out" blog immediately devalues it. The one person who was called out on that account (the original one) was an adult sexualizing teenagers who blocked anyone who tried to tell her that what she was doing was harmful. It makes it seem like you're trying to support adults who sexualize minors.

There's no way to "communicate" with someone who blocks anyone who tries to "call" them "in". a call out is a statement that this type of behavior isn't acceptable and a promise to make the fandom a safer space for teenagers.

I asked very respectfully not to send me follow up questions on this matter. Because this whole "call out" thing had been weighing on my mental health.

But once again, I keep getting dragged into this.

This my response to every ask I've gotten regarding this matter over the last few days. The asks I've been ignoring because it's not my place to give an opinion on this. Or rather, I do not have to. I don't have an obligation to do so.

But here we are.

The very reason I find the call out blog problematic is because of a sentence you said in your ask.

You mentioned that because I find the call out blog problematic and I quote "it makes it seem like you're trying to support adults who sexualize minors."

This is the problem.

The call out is not the problem. It's the way in which they are being called out.

Over the last few days, I've seen tsc blogs, for the lack of a better word, being "investigated". Posts dug from the past, follower lists analysed, screenshots posts and shared in public.

This is not a call out. A call out refers to interpersonal confrontations occurring between individuals on social media. In theory, call-outs should be very simple – someone does something wrong, people tell them, and they avoid doing it again in the future.

Now I understand you mentioned an individual refused to listen. I will not comment on that - since I do not know this individual personally or how they reacted. I do not prefer to talk about people I don't know personally. Neither the people calling them out - or the person being called out.

But what I can tell you is that when you call out someone, it only works when you point out why they are wrong, not what what they are doing is wrong. So, instead of calling someone a pedophile, it is essential to explain how their behaviour impacts you or your peers. It is important to address this issue in the larger fandom, not just by spamming one person's ask box. Because this issue is greater than one blog.

The reason why I don't condone this call out blog is because it is so easily possible to get carried away and overpunish people, turning alleged perpetrators of upsetting acts into victims themselves. The moral high ground people stand on evolves from calling out to public shaming of individuals.

I am requesting this entire fandom to rethink your actions and to reevaluate your choices. All of you.

It breaks my heart that you would say that I support adults who sexualise minors when have spent my whole adult life protecting children from such people. It is literally my job.

I recently saw one of my dearest friends being called "homophobic" because they support Jace - because Jace 'outed' Alec and therefore those who support Jace are also homophobic. It really hurt because I know the struggles my friend had to go through in order to protect themselves from their own homophobic family.

It makes me so sad and yet so angry that you are not aware of the consequences your words have on people.

People who make such claims. You seem to forget that we live in a digital world now. You all seem to forget that we are living through a pandemic. We study online. We work online. We entertain ourselves online.

So when you shame people online so callously, it can affect irreparable damage on their professional lives. It can ruin their mental health. It can impact their families.

While the intention of the callout blog - and those who support it - might be honest, the way in which they are achieving their goal is incredibly harmful for people in this fandom regardless of whether they are guilty or not.

I want to point out that this call out blog achieves nothing. It doesn't root out the pedophilia and sexism that exists on Tumblr - or in the fandom. The call out blog does't achieve anything. I'm sorry. It had to be said. The only thing this blog achieve is spreading a culture of shame, fear and stigma in the tsc fandom.

So, I urge you to rethink your actions and reevaluate your methods.

I do not believe in giving bland advice. So, as someone who works on these issues, allow me to point you in an healthier and more effective decision.

WHAT CAN YOU DO?

If the goal is "a promise to make the fandom a healthier space for teenagers" then you are doing it wrong. I say this as someone who works on creating healthy spaces for teenagers. It's up to you whether you want to listen to me or not.

But you are going about it wrong. Here is what you can do instead.

1. What we are doing wrong? Currently, you seem to be focusing on the people - not the issue. If you want to make the space feel safe, you need to address the root cause. What differentiates a call-out from bullying is that it shouldn’t be about punishing someone for something they have done, rather it should be about establishing a new pattern of behavior. In other words, when someone calls you out they want you to start showing through your actions that you care about the issue you’ve been called out on. So, show that you care about the issue.

2. How do we show we care? Focus on the teenagers. You are focusing on the wrong group of people. Cancelling out someone or calling out a blog or getting someone to deactivate is not going to make teenagers feel safe. Trust me on this. You need to address the issue to the victims. You need to ASK THEM how they want to be feel safe. While your method might work for you, it might not be what everyone wants. It might not make everyone feel safe. So, talk to your peers. What is it that you can do for your own community? Is it writing an email to CC about this issue in the fandom? Is it addressing it in a larger platform like a magazine or YouTube? Is it reaching to Tumblr and talking to them about doing their job and enforcing the community guidelines efficiently? THIS is how you fix the problem - not by chasing people out when you find them to be problematic.

3. Why are you complicating this? Why can't we just call people out? Because then you will only be addresing the symptoms, not the root cause. I understand that most of you are minors and therefore will not have the same awareness about how the system works or don't ahem access to same resources and opportunities we adults do. But unfortunately, it is our reality. We all live online. We all need to educate ourselves and do better.

I'm sharing an excellent resource here which was developed by UN WOMEN in 2021 to speficially tackle the issue of bullying, disinformation and hate speech experienced by youth - especially young women. It's a free online course that helps you learn this topic better. It even gives you a certificate from the organization.

I am ALL for calling people out as long as you do it the right way. So, if you want to be a warrior on Tumblr, if you want to protect your peers, if you want to create a safe space, you need to learn how to do it the right way. Otherwise, like most social activists, you are doing more bad than good. Your attempts to create a better world only lead to more chaos and pain.

4. I still don't understand. Then here is a simply answer. I hope this helps.

Please make better choices. Be conscious of how your actions online affect people both in digital and offline spaces.

You are allowed to fight for your safety. You are allowed to fight for your rights. But you are not allowed to hurt another person to prove your point. Then your whole initiative becomes counterproductive.

You need to be more aware. You need think more critically.

Finally and most importantly - I once again ask that you do not drag me into this. I am not the president of this fandom. I am not your parent. While it is my job to create awareness and work on online safety, I am not on tumblr to be an activist. This is my safe space. This is my comfort space. This is where I come to take my mind off all the stressful and heartbreaking things I have to work on as an activist. I am here to shit post like most people. I do not have to teach you to be decent or how to be sensible or how to be kind. That is the job of the education system and your family.

I'm sorry those around you have failed you and it has come to this. I only hope you do not fail yourself.

Make better choices.

Love, Dani.

#tsc fandom #tsc #cyber bullying

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captnjacksparrow · 4 years ago

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I just got into the fandom and I love it so much. However, there are parts where I just cringe. I’m going to be completely honest when I say I can’t see SS being a thing, a healthy one at that. A rumor said that Sasuke always had feelings for Sakura but he didn’t know how to show them because hatred blinded him. I just... find it utterly bullshit. Hell, even I do ship narusasu, I tried to be open minded and not fall too far off canon or the characters. I don’t understand how Sasuke had those feelings for her when all he did was shown the opposite and it felt genuine. He seem always annoyed and pushes her away. She kept forcing her feelings on him when he makes it clear that he’s not interested. I don’t hate the ship because it’s not my ship but because it’s extremely toxic. It feels one-sided (Sakura’s side) more than anything and it’s makes it hard to believe he had those feelings for her. I mean, on the second episode of season five, she confessed and poured out her heart and he blew it off. I cringed hard and was beyond disappointed because she’s making it about herself. That’s literally how I feel about their damn “relationship”. She made it about her and her only. When he’s hurting, it’s about her. It’s so annoying and it makes me see how self-centered Sakura. When she said she understood Sasuke, I wanted to scream (I nearly did but my family is sleeping and I don’t need a lecture.) She doesn’t know Jackshit about Sasuke besides he’s the only survivor of his decease clan, he’s a loner who cares only about himself, and he’s attractive. She’s just like every other fangirl expect she’s on his team. I’m trying my best not to hate her but Damn she’s really pushing it. Anything that annoyed me was that she made it seem like they were dating, again making it about herself and her feelings. She sent Naruto to get Sasuke for her benefits, so she can keep him. Again, disregarding Sasuke’s feelings and what he wanted. Naruto should’ve said “I’ll bring him back because HE wants too, to keep HIM safe, not for you.” I just can’t with this ship. I’m still wondering why the hell is it even a thing? Also find it beyond pitiful how she stayed with Sasuke in Boruto when he left for 12-13 years?! No note. No checking up. Nothing. Hell, Sarada doesn’t know how her own father looks like or the truth of her mother. Both of them were miserable and I find it absolutely ridiculous when SS shippers still say “they’re in love” or they’re OTP. If that’s what true love looks like (good thing it’s not), then I’d die single. I can’t be the only one who thinks this ship is just as bad as Harley Quinn x Joker.

First off, Thanks for this lovely ask @larrycherry04 ❤️❤️❤️❤️ I've always wanted to write about this and your ask is the perfect timing.

Disclaimer: SS shippers, Sakura fans!!! Don’t read this post!!

Me being an SNS shipper, I am just going to write this from a non-SNS perspective. Meaning, I am going to consider Naruto and Sasuke are just friends or rivals.

Bear with my lengthy answer.

Where do I even begin?

A rumor said that Sasuke always had feelings for Sakura but he didn’t know how to show them because hatred blinded him.

I think this rumor is from a light novel called Akatsuki Hiden or whatever shit. But for me, it looks like a pathetic attempt to convince those horny women shippers who would pay any money to read a romance which mirrors their own love life where they desire an ‘unreachable & handsome’ man who has this ‘cool & overbearing’ aura and carries this ‘bad boy badass’ vibe. They would do anything to get the attention from this boy. Until this point is where the reality ends.

What they really wants to happen and fantasize is somehow that handsome man, one day, will look only them and recognize their love and becomes a ‘soft’ guy who would bring the heavens for them and treats her like a princess. That fantasy led them to buy these novels and believe everything while completely disregarding the canon material. And those novels are aimed at these type of women.

You must have been wondering now, ‘I have seen these type of shit somewhere’!!!!!

That’s right.

50 Shades of Grey, Twilight, Beauty and the Beast, 100′s of K-Drama, C-Drama follow this shit romance trope and it’s regrettably fucking popular.

In other words, Don’t believe anything apart from the canonic resources.

Let’s dissect the canon materials about SS.

TEAM 7

This is how it all started

Does anyone see anything positive here????

Well, I am not.

Sakura wanted to impress Sasuke. Since, Naruto always picks fight with Sasuke, she badmouthed Naruto in the hopes that Sasuke will recognize some common ground with her which may develop into a friendship. But she shot her own foot.

[Regardless, I hated her here and she never redeemed herself, for her being completely insensitive & oblivious towards Sasuke’s life, the boy she loves]

Technically, Sasuke should have said ‘You’re Annoying’ towards Naruto for kissing him before the class and tying him up later. Here, Sakura is simply badmouthing another guy. He, somehow, find this very annoying than anything Naruto did earlier.

Sasuke always had feelings for Sakura but he didn’t know how to show them because hatred blinded him.

Am definitely not seeing any feelings here.

ZABUZA ARC

Alright, much later, somehow Sasuke started to integrate into team 7 and started to see them as a Family. No denial here. He started to care about everyone in his team at some point. Which was evident from the way he thought to himself, ‘That was Sakura’s voice... What is Kakashi doing?’

But does it means he hopelessly fell in love with her??? Nope.

It’s just a team camaraderie where he was worried about his teammate. If he has special feelings towards her, he should have said ‘I must go save Sakura’ or something along the line.

But, later in that episode, he went on to die for Naruto and even at his dying moments he didn’t think about Sakura or Team 7. It was all about someone else.

Even seconds before falling into Naruto’s arms, Sasuke was smiling with no regrets.

It was funny very later that after he got up from his temporary death, rather than consoling her like ‘Sakura, Don’t cry. Am alright’ or anything, he was asking ‘Where’s Naruto?’. LOL.

Even much later, when Sakura was asking him about a date, he bluntly said ‘I refuse’.

So, you’re telling me, throughout this arc, a boy blinded with hatred can able to pout, play childish games, train and die for a boy but when it comes to Sakura he can’t show his feelings???

Sorry, I don’t see romance here. Not in this arc.

Whether you agree or not, every parent has their favorite child, every child has their favorite parent. Even within your family, you always have a special person.

For Sasuke, Itachi was that person in his real family. Sakura was not that person in his Team 7 family. It was Naruto.

CHUNIN EXAMS ARC

This arc is where those SS shippers celebrates a lot and I know why. Remember earlier I talked about that shitty 50 Shades of Grey romantic trope??? The following scene vaguely falls under that pattern.

A guy loses his control because of a cursed seal and beats up the guys who hurt one of his teammates which happens to be a girl and calms down after seeing the girl.

That Infamous back hug.

I understand why SS people lose their mind with that scene. And I don’t blame them. I am going to throw their own proof at them.

So, this First databook, tells us that he finally sees both Naruto and Sakura as comrades and his heart softens from the path of revenge, a little bit.

Definitely, Sakura’s tears or love towards him stopped his rampage. But nothing says about whether Sasuke loves her back.

Much later, Sasuke also stops his cursed seal on his own after thinking about worried Sakura and a screaming Naruto (Who don’t know about this seal thingy at that time).

Well, whatever. That databook has another funny fact, that too in the same page.

LOL. Weird!!!! This accidental kiss unravels Sasuke’s heart ❤️❤️???? 🤣🤣🤣

So, influencing Sasuke’s heart can be attributed to both his teammates,according to this databook. Atleast upto this arc. There are no special feelings for Sakura alone, guys.

Proof?

If Sasuke really considers her in a romantic light (this is after that back hug), he doesn’t have to do this at all. Believe me, Love is all about subconsciously or purposefully enjoying or feeling little touches. Those touches can be through eyes, memories or physical. Sakura is delighted with his touch because she loves him but Sasuke just see her as a comrade and keeping his distance but this time very politely.

If Kishi really likes these couple, he doesn’t have to make this scene at all. It’s not just this one instance, he rejected her twice very bluntly before this saying ‘Don’t cling to me!!!’, ‘Sakura, you’re heavy!!!’.

If you say her back hug is a token of romance, then I can say ‘this’ kiss is also a token of romance. You can’t ignore one while keeping the other.

Anyways, at the end of the arc, Orochimaru is the best judge to identify who can change Sasuke’s heart. And that person is not Sakura.

DEPARTURE

she confessed and poured out her heart and he blew it off. I cringed hard and was beyond disappointed because she’s making it about herself. That’s literally how I feel about their damn “relationship”. She made it about her and her only. When he’s hurting, it’s about her. It’s so annoying and it makes me see how self-centered Sakura. When she said she understood Sasuke, I wanted to scream (I nearly did but my family is sleeping and I don’t need a lecture.) She doesn’t know Jackshit about Sasuke besides he’s the only survivor of his decease clan, he’s a loner who cares only about himself, and he’s attractive.

You know what, Larry??? You are 1000% right.

But, atleast, I thought she was genuine in the first part of the proposal, like saying ‘Revenge is not good’.....bla bla.. Because, Revenge will never satisfy a person completely and I agree. Then she took a 180 degree by saying ‘Take me with you, Sasuke-Kun. I’ll make you happy’. This is where I lost it entirely. ‘Alright Bitch, So you really don’t care about his revenge or health. As long as you have the chance to get inside his pants, you are okay with it. So you are okay with Sasuke going to Orochimaru as long as you are with him..... Fucking Shit!!!!’ This is not okay at all.

How did Sasuke respond?

“Why should I have to tell you anything”

“I’m telling you to keep your nose out of my business”

“Stop bothering me over everything I do”

Ummm..... where I come from, this screams ‘Irritation’ to me. Added to it, throughout the whole conversation he never saw her face. There was evidently no pain or anything from his face. On top the cake, here comes the cherry

“You really are...annoying”

This is where he saw her face throughout that painful confession before knocking her out. Umm... When you love someone or atleast feel for someone, you will look in their eyes and speak some farewell words before you leave. Or atleast show some pain??? There’s visibly nothing from Sasuke’s face.

Alright, I know what SS wankers will pull out here. That Databook 2 with some vague words. I am going to throw this at them.

Again, like I acknowledged before, he considers her as a comrade and part of a family. So, her existence also eased his loneliness. But you have to look at the word choice here. “The one that filled his lonely existence was Sakura”. It’s not the ‘Only’ person. Before he left he said ‘Thanks’. Meaning, Thanks for all these days. That’s all between us.

This piece was about the Team 7 picture. So he acknowledges, he was not alone during his genin days because of his companions and Kakashi (so it’s not just Sakura to ease his loneliness). Whatever he said to Sakura was real.

So can we safely confirm “You’re annoying” is real????

But what’s really interesting is the way Sasuke projects himself before Naruto. I am going to refrain myself from attaching all those rollercoaster of emotions flowed throughout the fight in VoTE 1. Otherwise, it will become an SNS post.

However, this particular scene caught my attention.

Ummm.... Initially Sasuke walks without looking at Naruto. Then he looks back and answers him.

Naruto was pretty much asking the same question as Sakura. “Why does it come to this?”

But Sasuke pauses and surprised for a moment and asks him pretty much “Why do you care about me?”

Why couldn’t Sasuke do the same with Sakura???? Kishi can pretty much make a panel or two rather than making some insulting panels.

Anyways, If they throw the databook, then I can also throw the same.

Alright, can someone explain the highlighted sentence for me???? Because I want to confirm whether I have a blurry vision.

Here, Sasuke is trying to punctuate Naruto as a different person from the rest of his companions. ‘his companions as well as that with Naruto’, I mean, Come on!!!! Naruto is also one of your companions along with Sakura. Why differentiate????

‘The village, companions, Naruto,....’ . Again....He is differentiating his home (village), companions (his friends), and Naruto. So who is Naruto for him? What is the need to make exception for Naruto? It’s very clear he is placing Naruto at a high pedestal for some unknown reasons.

Before this Databook dissection, remember I said something about saying Goodbye, ‘ When you love someone or at least feel for someone, you will look into that person’s eyes and speak some farewell words before you leave‘

Sasuke is doing exactly that here in this scene without saying anything.

Am sorry SS shippers, you can scream all you want about Sasuke knocked her out and left her on the bench. But there was no emotional distraught when he left her. Sasuke seemingly spent a longer time staring at Naruto than looking at Sakura when she confessed.

OROCHIMARU HIDEOUT

Well, there is nothing I can say about here for SS. He pretty much saw her and said, “Sakura, huh?”.. And that’s all. He didn’t give two shits about her.

His attention was completely on someone else.

UNDER THE BRIDGE

She sent Naruto to get Sasuke for her benefits, so she can keep him. Again, disregarding Sasuke’s feelings and what he wanted. Naruto should’ve said “I’ll bring him back because HE wants too, to keep HIM safe, not for you.”

Naruto pretty much said the same thing in this arc, Larry. Naruto, in part 1, was happy for Sakura feeling the same about Sasuke as him, that is ‘To bring him back’. And also sad that his crush really loves someone else. But after Sakura gave up on Sasuke and faking her confession, Naruto decided, ‘Alright, I want to save him personally. I don’t care about our promise anymore”.

This is where, SS ship goes into a crazy ride and it’s not a positive one.

Sasuke was on a rampage. He lost the ability to differentiate between his friends and foes. He stabbed Karin. And when he find her alive, he was about to Chidori her.

And then comes the pink princess, full of lies and deceit. And Sasuke being impatient and disgusted with her lies, he does this

Well, in part 1, she had a degree of power to change his heart. But not here. He, instead, got riled up more and even tried to kill her without a warning and that too by not looking at her face. Pathetic!!!!

This scene screams ‘Trust issues’ from both sides.

Did it stop here???

Fucking Shit!!!!!! Is there any people who still ship this nonsense?. If you are a Sakura fan, you should hate her for the lack of trust and backstabbing the person she loves,

If you are a Sasuke fan, errrrmmm.....I have nothing to say. You know what to do.

There is nothing positive here, that can make me ship them. He is killing her like a Mosquito.

If you truly loved someone in the past, even in your darkest moments, you will be honest and you cannot fake before that person.

Proof??

Here, Sasuke had a clear resolve to kill his brother, Itachi. He lived for this moment for about 8 years and immersed himself in Darkness for 3 years with Orochimaru. He could have run away, dodge or look away from Itachi. But Sasuke simply couldn’t!!! You know why?? Sasuke loved Itachi once more than anything in this world. At this moment, he is letting all those defense loose and embracing the moment and see what Itachi was about to do. Because somewhere in his heart he trusts Itachi.

But killing Sakura doesn’t make Sasuke feel anything. She is just another victim like Danzo or Karin or all those Samurais or a fucking mosquito!!!!

So you are telling me that Sasuke had feelings for her but kept it hidden all along and still tried to kill her like a pest???

Give me a fucking break!!!!

And you all know, who changed Sasuke’s heart here in this scene. It was not Sakura. There’s absolutely no reason for Sasuke to listen to that person and what’s more, Sasuke even made a promise (despite being in darkness, he had it in his heart to listen to that person) to destroy Konoha only after killing that person ..

WAR ARC

Well, this is the arc where Sakura behaves like a rabid dog on heat waiting for Sasuke and shamelessly trying to wag her tails. But Sasuke didn’t give two shits about her, not once or twice but multiple times.

MOMENT 1

An explosion was about to kill the whole shinobi alliance and this dude wants to save Jugo, his companion and Naruto, the person who will challenge his Revolution, his rival and the one whom he wants to kill. Why only Naruto??? Why not Naruto and Sakura???

Pink cherry Queen doesn’t even crossed Sasuke’s mind. Because he already threw her away in part 1.

MOMENT 2

Alright Bitch!!! The entire shinobi alliance was dying on the other side of the battlefield. And this asshole is doing a clownshow before Madara just to get inside Sasuke’s pants????

I mean, Come On!!!!

Well, if Sasuke truly likes her, he should be the one to have catched her or atleast should have asked her, ‘are you alright??’

I am sorry, where are the romantic feelings???

MOMENT 3

ROFLLLL🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

For the first time, Kishimoto is trolling those Sakutards through Sasuke’s words, what we, readers were right about all along. He is calling her useless here. And still these fake feminazis trying to ship her with him???

Don’t you guys have any self respect??? If so, this should be the moment to jump out of this trash ship.

MOMENT 4

Geez!!! You are still on this ship?????

He clearly doesn’t want to save her at all. The hawk can clearly lift 3 people. Sasuke is not even making an effort here.

And you are still yapping that he is blinded by darkness???

MOMENT 5

This is the moment SS calls it as ‘eyesmex’... While in reality, he was just looking at her and silently thanking her for helping him out. Do you know what is a real ‘eyesmex’??? I will attach it at the end.

If you guys pull this as true love, then he should have stayed in the same love till the end. But Sasuke has other ideas.

This is the one of the funniest thing in this arc. LOLLLLL

Instead of being relieved that Sakura was saved, Sasuke was wondering about Kakashi’s Susanoo.....and Sharingan.

Do people still think he cares about her????

MOMENT 6

Am cackling here, while dissecting the sorry state of this ship guys 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣!!!! If something good happens to me because of SS , it’s just the way you guys are making me laugh by making a clown out of yourself!!!!

Do you guys know something? There was a man named Itachi. Before massacring his clan, the very first person he killed was his ‘supposed’ Girlfriend, named Izumi. I wouldn’t say Itachi loved her like a lover boy. It was just one sided on her part. He just talks to her when he finds a spare time and considers her a good friend.

Do you know how he killed her?

By putting her in a ‘Tsukuyomi’. And what kind of Tsukuyomi, you ask?

Can you see how he fulfilled her dreams gracefully before he was going to kill her???

Why didn’t Sasuke do this???? Why particularly select a murdering genjutsu????

MOMENT 7

He said it, finally.

He don’t love her at all. There was no hidden feelings. He admitted from his own mouth.

One day later, after the final VoTE battle ends.... After exchanging some intense feelings and even crying tears of happiness with Naruto....

Sasuke tells Sakura, ‘Sorry’....

Ummm.... That’s all???

All those negative shits happened before cannot be solved by just simply saying ‘Sorry’ and ‘Thank you’. If someone has an ounce of self-respect, they should know this is not OKAY at all...🙅🏻‍♀️🙅🏻‍♀️🙅🏻‍♀️🙅🏻‍♀️

Am Sorry, but Sasuke was just being politely blunt, kind of insincere towards Sakura and turned his attention somewhere else in a matter of minutes. He was not even bothered by Sakura’s tears here. Instead staring at someone on his left. Remember I talked about touching the person physically and visually?

Sasuke is subconsciously or purposefully touching someone on his left through his eyes. Definitely it’s not Sakura. You know who it is. Remember SStards’ infamous ‘eyesmex’... I seriously believe this is a perfect example of ‘eyesmex’.

All these intense looks and feeling pain still doesn’t serve Sakura, even after pulled out of darkness. If there is a moment, where SS wants to shine, then this is where it should be. He should have told her, how he missed her all along, how he felt about hurting her, should have wiped her tears and some corny shit. But instead, Sasuke went for a long ass monologue for his friend and talking about sharing his pain.

What about your kween’s pain????

You don’t have to ship SNS. But you should know where Sasuke’s priorities are.

It’s not Sakura.

Sasuke said ‘Sorry’ to Karin too. ‘Thank you’ to Kakashi as well.

And what’s even more pathetic is, still Sakura wants to get inside Sasuke’s pants by accompanying him. Bitch, you can help your village, console your best friend Ino who lost her father, try to surpass Tsunade, improve your skills or whatever... Why bother him???

So, if you really think ‘Thank you’ as a token of love, then I can’t help it but term Sakura as a rabid dog who waits for her master to come home and throw some bones whenever he finds time. Your standards for a romantic love is piss poor and you will suffer just like Sakura in Boruto with just emptiness. All Sasuke did was poke her forehead just like Itachi which symbolizes keeping someone at a distance. He also said the same words to her just like Itachi said to him many times ‘Mata kondo da’ meaning ‘Maybe next time’. And we all knew that next time never came for Sasuke.

Now all we see is a Sasuke as an absentee father in Boruto for which I don’t blame him. He was never a marriage material in the first place. Sakura and the Manga Editors forced him and she is paying for it.

Hell, Sarada doesn’t know how her own father looks like or the truth of her mother. Both of them were miserable and I find it absolutely ridiculous when SS shippers still say “they’re in love” or they’re OTP.

All I want to say to SS shippers is, Your Ship Has Sailed Already. You cannot expect Sasuke to go lovey dovey towards Sakura with a 12 year old daughter around and for fuck’s sake, this is not a romance manga, it’s a battle manga. So stop dreaming about this kind of non-existential romance and pull yourself altogether.

#naruto analysis #ask #sasunaru #sasunarusasu #anti sakura #anti sasusaku

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touchmycoat · 4 years ago

Text

on Promising Young Woman

i was hesitant to watch bc i knew a spoiler, but @trixree convinced me to watch it and i’m very glad i did. all things aside, it’s just damn well-written—pacing’s top-notch, every act shift was action-driven with a female lead, and it balanced the pleasure of a revenge fantasy against the soul of the story SO well.

thoughts & spoilers below

elephant in the room: yeah I hesitated to watch the movie because I know Cassie gets murdered in the end. After watching the scenes that followed, I...have a better understanding of why that was the choice. I still hated that it happened, period. I literally said “fuck you” out loud to the morning after shot, with the sunlight pouring down on her in the white outfit and she had her arms outstretched—yes, she’s a martyr, yes, she’s the “morning angel,” but fuck that, I didn’t need her to be a martyr. I so desperately wanted the movie to give her more than that.

Like Jenna and Wesley said, it was a superhero movie. That lasted until the choice to kill her.

Thoughts on why they did it: for the ironic morning after, where the audience sees not-Zac Efron sob and whine about how he’s going to lose his marriage and family and job after he just knowingly murdered a woman. Where we get to see Schmidt (fnjdnfjdnf what a casting choice, i lost my mind) say the words to Al Monroe that women like Nina needed to hear—it’s not your fault. None of it was your fault. We get to see the violent and continuous forgiveness of men that dead girls have and continue to pay for.

But my question is, what part of the movie managed to give the audience comfort that legal authority is the solution to this problem? The ending felt squeaky clean wrapped-up, yes, but the anxiety that ran deepest for me throughout this entire film was the fact that Cassie was leaving these men alive. All the men she’s found in the clubs, the man whose car she smashed, the entire law firm that specializes in burying rape cases—to me, every man she left alive was one more factor that could come back and bite her. That was my concern, and it was by no means alleviated by the scene with Bo Burnham and the detective right before the wedding.

I guess that circles back to the question of what the film is trying to be, though. It’s a different take on a revenge thriller. It isn’t meant to deliver a smash-burn-kill catharsis. Rather, it operates on a realer level. Which I love, actually! When she told the fedora guy that she’s not the only one who does it, it felt like a very enticing call-to-action lmao, and like a moment that ought to haunt the “good guys” that watch this film. The movie did so well to manifest and deliver the “enough is fucking enough” attitude that everybody ought to have about sexual assault under the influence.

More on why they killed Cassie: to really lean into the specter of Nina who has so haunted the entire narrative. Even handcuffed to the bed, Al Monroe never said the word “rape.” Nobody wants to, they keep skirting around it and refusing to acknowledge it for what it is. That’s why the movie does it for us, the audience. Instead of saying it, the movie gives its thesis on what rape actually is—a murder. A squeezing-out of a woman’s existence. Al Monroe rapes and kills Nina Fisher before the start of the movie, and the movie ends with Al Monroe killing Cassie. It ends with the violent burning of Cassie’s body, and fucking Schmidt kicking her hand with the childishly painted nails back into the bonfire. The parallel destruction of women is evident.

Did the ending feel like enough of a resurrection?

On a fandom level, I am happy to do the work of seeing the Romance in it. Cassie evidently anticipated her own death, perhaps even sought it—it’s easy to picture a fic focused on Cassie’s thoughts pre-bachelor party, where she’s just so happy to finally be joining Nina again. Where she gets to sign a text Love, Cassie & Nina. I fucking adore how much of an agent she was in the action throughout the entire movie, and the ending definitely did some work in resurrecting that agency.

On a real life level though, I’m so, so fucking sad she essentially had to commit suicide to get the justice she sought. She really is a martyr, but no part of the story indicated she was happy to be. There’s no relief in what she chose—it was simply what had to be done, because nobody else would do a goddamn thing.

Oh boy, the movie did so well to play Ryan as a good guy up until the very end. When time came for him to own up to his mistakes, he flipped like a fucking dime. Suck it #NotAllMen.

The evocations of childhood were interesting. We have the notebook, the scrunchie, the pink bedroom, the childhood photos, the juice box, the friendship necklaces, the painted nails. What is that doing?

- It’s a visual touch point for the arc words “we were just kids!” used as a protestation by rapists and assaulters to excuse their actions. Men get to be “kids” who made mistakes, women get repeated insistence that their actions have consequences, that they shouldn’t have gotten that drunk.

- It signifies Cassie’s vulnerability, her childhood best friend that she’s never been able to move on from. Functionally, I thought it was a brilliant way of grounding how tender the center of her story is, that she’s actually operating from a very simplistic point of pain and loss, considering how cool and violent she gets to be throughout most of the movie.

- It becomes a symbol for destroyed innocence when it’s the last bit of Cassie we see before her body’s burned. The movie re-positioned the meaning of this word “innocence,” I think. It’s not about women being ruined after rape, it’s about these women being people. Cassie’s last monologue about Nina does so much work to hammer that home—Nina’s value was never about innocence before or after her assault, it was never diminished. She was loved because of who she was as a person, but Al Monroe squeezed the life out of her anyways. Childhood and innocence become about the happiness that existed before men attacked, and the men get to symbolically destroy it one more time with a kick into the pyre. But then comes the resurrection, and in a way, the movie returns Cassie to that happiness with the last texts she got to sign with her best friend and a winky face.

The penitent lawyer was a hell of a narrative choice. I did accept it, and I like it mainly for what it showed of Cassie—that she is capable of forgiveness. By putting the scene with Nina’s mother right after, it transitions Cassie into a spot of hope pretty damn effectively. I also like that it didn’t take Cassie’s emotional labor to get the lawyer to that place, and that he was already self-flagellating (the dead plants behind Cassie in that apartment were a great touch) before she got there. I like the possibility that Cassie could have forgiven herself for not being there for Nina.

That’s why I’m so damn mad she’s dead!!!! She recognized how destructive her pattern of behavior is, and put an effort to stop that for herself and for her relationship with people she cares about. Yeah, Ryan proved an asshole, but it wasn’t even about him!! She laid it clean out for that guy!! No forgiveness. He was not an innocent bystander. He does not get to get away with anything, and all the ways he chose to behave after the fact just further proves it!

Cassie was stunning, and dangerous, and incredible. Narratively, she really could have gotten away with it. I don’t want to buy this finale, that it takes the destruction of another woman to bring justice to the first. I don’t care how neatly framed it was, that was not a happy ending.

#promising young woman #it was fucking great #and i'm still fuming about it

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daisiesonafield-blog · 4 years ago

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This is my first stunt (Holivia) and even though the blue bandana two days in a row with banana dock necklace right after El and Louis and the wedding. I still hate seeing it and makes me feel like itty bitty doubts. But then I look t everything else and I’m like no they are together. I just wish I was more seasoned so I didn’t have even the slightest doubt. Any tips?!

Hi dear,

I get what you mean. Stunts are awful, and they're even worse when you're experiencing it in real time. If it's affecting you, I'd rec blacklisting the topic so you can take a break. It can be a lot. This is also the first stunt I'm living thru since joining the fandom (not including E), so you're far from the only one.

I think another thing to keep in mind is that the point of it is to make people think it's real. It's what a publicity stunt relationship is for. For publicity. And if you pay attention to details then you'll notice how they strategically disseminate the info they want out there to maintain their story and keep it going. And unfortunately the point of closeting is to make people believe they are "in fact straight", and part of that is showing them "dating women".

It's easy to get caught up on the little details day to day. But try to think of it all within a bigger context and pattern. Helps see things in perspective.

#stunts #holivia #horry #eleano #bearding #beards #closeting #patterns and context #jun 3 2021 #jun 2021 #patterns and context matter #context consistency and patterns #context matters #music industry #homophobic industry

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cyberfairyblog · 4 years ago

Text

Why Jillian Sucks

Hi, welcome to Odyssey Mystery Hour! I'm your host @gritsandbrits and today I'll be talking about a hot topic in the AIO fandom! Wanna know the tea? Keep on reading!

In the weeks I started getting back into the radio series, the newer episodes have started to irk me, mostly because of one of the more annoying additions: Jillian. Marshall. 😬😬😬

Even though I ship Jason with my self insert OC this not going to be about her. There's a lot of reasons why I do NOT like the idea of Jillian x Jason becoming a canon thing on the show. I hope to describe these feelings as best I can.

Who is Jillian you might ask?

Well to put it simply, Jillian is what happens when a Soccer Mom and a TikTok boyfriend mate and spawn an unholy baby and name them Rachel Berry. Out of the aspects of Nu!Odyssey I dislike, Jillian is the one thing I truly despise. Thankfully I've met fans who share the exact sentiment! 😁😒

Double-N Annoying, Double-O Nincompoop

Making her debut in 2018, Jillian is described as lively and upbeat, if a little high strung and immature; the perfect recipe for Kid Appeal! Before she moved to Odyssey she lived in different cities and worked nineteen jobs before becoming roommates with Connie and her sister Jules.

Now this is actually a fairly interesting set up: a new character struggling to find purpose only to discover it in a quaint small town. But as it turns out her going through that many jobs seems to be more than just struggling to find purpose.

When I first saw her design my thought immediately went to the smarmy classmates I went to school with.

We're introduced with this iconic line: "Hi!! I'm Jillian Marshall, double-L Jillian, double-L Marshall! It's so nice to meet you!"

With that one sentence I knew I was about to die.

The following episode has Jillian bumbling through every job interview much to Connie's duress after which she conveniently ending up working at Triple J Antiques...the same place Jason works!

A little backstory on Jason: he is the adult son of John Whittaker, one of the show's main character, and a bit of an Ensemble Darkhorse. He was introduced as a secret agent meant to bring action and intrigue into the show. He was set up as a charismatic and reckless sort of guy clashing with the calmer Jack Allen. After the Green Ring Conspiracy Saga, Jason officially retired from James Bonding and settled down to work at the Allen's antique shop.

Given his immense popularity there's understandable concern for how he is written and who he gets paired up with. So what does that have to do with Jillian.

Well, the idea of Jillian working at the same exact place as Odyssey's resident bachelor and calling him cute raises a few eyebrows.

"B-but Grits all she did was call him cute! You're reaching too far into this!"

Am I? Look I know this wouldn't be much of a big deal too but that is a subtle tactic the writers threw in to get the cogs turning for Jillison. Jason is clearly uninterested and even implied to dislike her. Jillian bemoans this but Connie reassures her that that's not the case. But hey at least she called him cute so OF COURSE she's going to end up being his love interest!

To me removing a character's core trait to justify a romance means you do NOT know how to actually write a compelling romance. It's trite, it's forced and painful to listen to.

It's also obvious she's a replacement for Bernard, given they have similar personalities and her brief stint on TV (which she also failed at lol). But whereas Bernard was actually endearing, Jillian seems more of a cliche womanchild with zero self awareness and tact. No actual depth, just a personality that is incredibly dumbed down and even insulting. Seriously they made her the dumb blond stereotype in an era where we should've moved on from that! 🤦

Did I mention she goes to church?

Yep she's gonna be one of those Christians.

Literally Loveless, Literally!

Oddly enough the narrative frames this as a rivals to lovers thing, where Jason is both the charismatic friendly guy and the super uninterested Straight Man. The constant twisting the turning makes him go OOC. See we know he's fit better as the former because that goes in line with his canon personality. But when they make him the latter he just comes off as unnecessarily mean. This is turns frames Jillian as someone we should pity: "Oh the attractive male doesn't like me because I went into his office without permission!!"

Wouldn't it make more sense for Jillian to be the one uninterested in a romance since her focus in to find a job/better purpose and romance might distract her? That would make a fun subplot...IF SHE WASN'T OBNOXIOUS!

A pattern I noticed and several fans pointed out: Jason's previous love interests were consistent in that they were strong minded women who challenged him in different ways. Their personalities bounced off creating a fun dynamic that was entertaining to see. Even though they didn't end up with him, you can still see and hear and feel their chemistry which is my goal for Jason x OC. Tasha doesn't make Jason OOC & they had a bittersweet arc, so their interactions were organic. Monica only made him OOC because she was a villain actively manipulating him. So again that worked in terms of story and led to Monica's redemption if my memory serves.

However, Jillian's dynamic is not that fun to listen to. You can feel her annoying Jason through the airwaves. She's strong but only in the sense of feeling something hard underneath your back laying on the bed and realizing that's just your earbud. She's vibrant yes but what else? She doesn't have any unique traits to contrast Jason, and any attempt at a contrast would mean making him act out of character. Adding her bumbling clumsiness and annoying voice, Jason would get tired of her very quickly. He's the type to go for people to have intelligent conversations with, not make him lose braincells. She could very well bring out the worse in him, it'll be an unhealthy relationship.

Here's a tidbit worth mentioning: the VA for Jillian actually auditioned with Jason's VA Townsend Coleman. Now that is big ass red flag right there! No hate towards the actress, just throwing that out there. There's also a facebook page dedicated to Jillison. Typical FB stupidity ramped up to eleven, or AIO fans who see something in Jillian; or at least THINk they see something worthwhile in her.

It doesn't help the writers keep insisting that these two go well together. The audience knows they do not work well as a pair but the narrative keeps insisting they are anyways. I recall an episode that had them pretend to be married while undercover and it was bad. Like REALLY humiliating to see Jason put in that position. He also told her to shut up much to my joy because she could NOT stop being irritating for five minutes. Alas the show still tries to justify Jillian being the Perfect Woman for Jason when she's anything but. And not even endearingly imperfect.

Follow Up

These tags I wrote on one of the AIO posts describes how I feel about Villain Marshall and the Jillison coupling as a whole. It just wouldn't work because Jason needs someone that can actually CHALLENGE him, have their own personality that can bounce off his (without being forced), and most importantly DOESN'T AGGRAVATE THE FANDOM!!

I have not met a single person anywhere that say they like Jillian. It's a different story apparently on the Club App - they like her for reasons I'm too cowardly to find out. But no, she sucks as a character. She makes a annoying friend, and is not a good addition to the show, much less a good love interest.

The only good thing she brought us are the nicknames we gave her 😌

That's all for now thank you for tuning into the Odyssey Mystery Hour. Next week I'll be talking a bit more about my OC Vanessa and her role in the world of Odyssey! Goodbye and make sure to lock your doors to prevent Jillian from coming in!!

#adventures in odyssey #jason whittaker #anti jillison #aio #rant #radio drama #adventures in odyssey radio show #jillian marshall #anti jillian marshall

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bookofmirth · 3 years ago

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I think there's a disconnect in this fandom when it comes to shipping and viewing characters on an individual scale. For instance, I can like a certain character and not ship him/her with XYZ. Or....I can dislike a certain character and not ship him/her with XYZ. The whole point of shipping is to ship two people you feel are compatible with each other.

Lately it seems people forget to separate the characters from their ship (it's all or nothing) and I think that's part of what leads to the negative discourse in this fandom because people get protective of their ship when someone else has a different opinions.

It's either, "you're delusional!" or "you only ship A+B together because you hate C."

The first comment quite frankly doesn't warrant a response because people are allowed to ship whoever they genuinely want and shouldn't be called out for it. As for the latter, I don't particularly find an issue with it because people have their reasons to dislike a character so why would they stans a couple they're not fond of? As an example, I'm going to use Azriel and Elain (let me preface this by saying I'm Feysand all the way so I'm not particularly invested in the other couples. I'm really just along for the ride because I need more Feysand 😅). Back to my point, people forget that there are valid reasons to dislike Azriel or Elain separately or together. That does make the people who don't stans these two together toxic but it seems people often equate it to mean the same when they are not.

Toxic is saying Elain or any other character should die just because. Toxic is straight up bullying other stans for having a different opinion (name calling, lack of trying to understand where they're coming from etc). Toxic is telling an OP to go kill himself/herself/themselves.

I think if people will just take off their shipping goggles for a hot minute and actually have an open mind, we can all understand each other a little better.

You don't stans Elain & Lucien together because he makes her uncomfortable? I can see where you're coming from. Let me tell you how I look at it.

You think Azriel has a disturbing mentality and pattern with putting women on a pedestal. Interesting. Let me tell you what I think.

You think Rhys was in the wrong to keep the the risk of Feyre's pregnancy from her. Here's what I think.

We don't necessarily all have to agree with each other but gaining different perspectives and keeping things civil is what makes fandom fun. At least...that's how it used to be.

Anyways, hope I made sense.

Have a lovely day!

I wish more people thought like you, anon. It would be super great if people could just step back and remove the ship that has been surgically attached to their personality, and realize that the ship is made of two characters who are individuals who have separate histories and potentially separate futures (in the sense that not every single second of my life revolves around my partner, no matter how close we are.)

The whole "you're delusional" thing, you're right, it doesn't actually warrant a response. It's an ad hominem attack and is really effective at derailing conversation, but it's... pointless. None of us are delusional at this point, even people I completely disagree with lmao. We all have the way we read the previous books, and the next ones don't exist. It's really a silly comment to make, and I usually try to let it roll off my back.

The "you only ship A + B because you hate C" is also sooooo annoying. First off, so what if I did? I can hate whatever character I want. Second, you don't know that I hate C? I could have very valid reasons for not liking that ship. Like you said, maybe I just don't see them as compatible together but I can still like them as individuals. I like Elain - I don't ship her with Az because I don't think they are compatible at all. (Again, that would require people seeing the characters as individuals in the first place.) (Also if anything, can I just say, if people want to say that I don't them because I hate a character, it would definitely be for my dislike of Azriel. At least get that straight.)

God it must be weird being in this fandom still just for feysand. What a relatively peaceful existence. You must be laughing at the rest of us constantly. 😂

Your examples at the end are perfect, and it's what I personally want to encourage more. But there is an important thing you did:

LISTEN. OMG we need to listen to each other, not just assume "oh you're a gwynriel insert fandom baggage and history here".

Explain our perspective without judging. Just as a counter. A possibility, because none of us can be right 100% of the time and that's okay.

I'm honestly not sure why these things are so hard. Or when they become difficult. It was NOT like this before acosf came out. I miss the old days, even though I felt like I had hardly anyone on my side in shipping elucien.

I hope you have a lovely day as well!

#acotar fandom #acotar #fandom things #ask #anon

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itsclydebitches · 4 years ago

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jaune killing penny put him in the position ozpin was at the end pyrrha made her choice to accept the maiden powers which could have possibly caused her to lose who she was ( her personality changing in a metaphorical death) while penny made her choice related to the maiden powers ( both involving cinder) jaune was angry at qrow and ozpin because he felt they sacrificed pyrrha over maiden powers

I wouldn’t say Jaune was put into Ozpin’s position. There was risk to Pyrrha accepting the Maiden powers, certainly, but ultimately it was a hopeful gamble: best case scenario, if the machine works then Pyrrha gets the Maiden powers while still remaining herself, or enters a dual existence like Ozma has with his hosts, and the powers remain safe from Cinder. The hope of a good outcome is what drove that decision. In contrast, Jaune is just doing damage control for a death that’s supposedly inevitable, though it’s written in a way that makes him seem far too willing. What I mean is, since Volume 3 anti-Ozpin viewers have argued extensively that Pyrrha’s death was his fault. Never-mind that the plan failed, Ozpin told her to leave, and Pyrrha decided against his orders to fight Cinder... he’s at fault. Because something something the pressure of being the Maiden “forced” Pyrrha to try and take on Cinder alone (because that martyr perspective definitely doesn’t have anything to do with growing up in the world spotlight, to the point where she’s on cereal boxes and has a statue made of her). We were given a character who actively asked for permission from a willing, informed woman again and again, yet the fandom was quick to label him as a murderer. Now, we have a character who is quick to kill, putting aside his own healing semblance because when the woman who has spent the last volume saying “Kill me” and “leave me behind as a distraction” now says “a mercy kill is the only option” he thinks he should take that at face value. To be clear, I’m not criticizing Jaune as a character — he was put into a horrific position and was clearly gutted about it — but rather the way RT chose to write his scene and how the fandom has ignored textual evidence to praise the characters they already love and condemn the ones they already hate. If we’re really going to compare these scenarios, Ozpin is the one who did everything possible to keep Pyrrha safe, Jaune is the one who — from the audience’s perspective — put aside a very obvious way to help Penny and jumped straight to helping her do what she’d been trying to do all season: kill herself to help everyone else.

Even if we do say that Jaune has some sort of parallel to Ozpin now, that makes things worse. Jaune is not a main character. He should not be getting these emotionally deep plotlines while Team RWBY is dealing with... what exactly? Weiss hasn’t had a real arc in ages, Blake only has her slowly growing relationship with Yang, and Yang and Ruby have had one conversation about grimm!Summer so far... interrupted by Jaune rushing in to inform them about Penny. I keep seeing claims that he is a main character, that he needs this development, but those same pockets of fandom complain about any screen time Nora, Ren, or Oscar get under the claim that they’re not main characters, as well as ignoring the comparative development Jaune has already gotten across the series. The argument of “Team JNR is as much MCs as Team RWBY now” only seems to apply when stuff is happening for Jaune... which shows that pockets of the fandom don’t really want our cast to expand to seven characters of equal importance, they just want Jaune, as an individual, to be as important as Team RWBY. But even if we decide that’s a good thing for the show as a whole, Jaune is arguably more developed than some of our main team. Both he and Ruby have had their leadership woes. Jaune has the bullying arc to overcome and has been given the most development in terms of power and skill. He shoulders the majority of the grief for Pyrrha, despite her having two other teammates and Ruby personally witnessing her death. Jaune gets the important armor upgrade/moment in the locker, Blake’s weapon is fixed off screen. His semblance reveal is given center stage and necessitates grievously harming one of the women (notice a pattern?) to forward that development — never-mind letting Weiss work through nearly dying. His grief is given the most attention at the statue, even though this excursion is supposedly about looking for Oscar. His group (with only one Team RWBY member) gets the majority of the action this volume. He’s the one given the task of killing Penny. He’s the only non-Team RWBY hero to fall into the void. He, as you say, is the one who get to be angry at Qrow even though that’s Ruby’s uncle and that Pyrrha was Ren and Nora’s teammates too. Trying to draw more parallels between Jaune and the lore significant/incredibly powerful mentor doesn’t make this situation look any better.

#rwby #mymetas #devotedlyvirtualcloud

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honestsycrets · 4 years ago

Text

Thank the Vanir | [ Ivar x Reader ]

❛ pairing | Ivar x Reader

❛ prompt | It was bananas with Ivar, but I changed it to Apples. Written for my patron @alicedopey

❛ summary | None of your friends know the truth; you rather they stay that way. Ivar celebrates a new beginning.

❛ warnings | impotency implied, functional family dynamic (no brothers bitching at each other as in the show), pregnancy mention, soft!ivar, squabbling OCs, pure f l u f f

❛ sy’s notes | here is the first of my squares filled for my Summer Patreon Party event! Best to start off with my favourites: pregnancy. I don’t have other preggo fics this event so, cheers! Another fic will hitcha tomorrow.

Ivar hates it when you don’t listen to his suggestions. They are simple enough; Don’t stress yourself with the birds. But you have this awful habit of not listening to what he asks. He breaches the doorway of his Great Hall after a long day in the soft sun.

“--he was this big,” says your blonde headed friend Alva, whose hands were like a man’s, plump and strong. Ivar wonders what magic she has. It has to be something to bring in the sort of men that she did. Maybe it was her mouth.

“Big or small?” prompts your lifelong friend, Revna. Her hand weaves your hair into divine memorized patterns. Under and under, they both weave patterns into your hair. Revna mouths around a pin, easing it into place on your head. “Are you so sure?”

Though you’re tired, exhausted even-- the women sit on the ledge of his throne, braiding your hair into something new and pretty. He glances off from his place at the mouth of the his Great Hall, listening to your friend’s incessant chittering between his men eating their dinners at the many tables.

“Big! I told you, big!”

“Little Hvitserk isn’t that big. He is more like…. This,” Revna clasps her hands over Alva’s hands, leaning them in, then barks in her haughty laughter looking toward you. “Isn’t he, isn’t he?”

“Ah! What would she know!?” Alva pouts, looping ties around your pre-existing braids.

“Perhaps it is genetic!”

“There finished. There, look how pre-- Wait,” she leans in, her black eyes prodding you for an answer. You hide behind your bowl of berries. It’s not time yet for your favourite fruit-- apples-- to be in season. So you’re stuck with the tart berries, shaking your head in disapproval as she spoke. “You’ve never slept with Hvitserk, have you? Wait. They shared that slave. What was her name, what was her name…”

“Margrethe.”

At last you speak. It’s something soft and gentle, something that prompts him to limp closer to save you. His calibers shift in place and his body follows suit with them. His back straightens and pulls up, each jab pierces the wooden plates under his hovering. You sit up, swatting the girls to hush, suddenly animated.

“No, of course she’s never fucked Hvitserk. She only has eyes for Ivaaaar. And why would she? Hvitserk looks like a misshapen woman. What are you thinking?”

“He does not!”

“Revna stop. He’s coming, he’s coming.” you swat her, tugging your finished braids over your shoulder, standing up with a hand on your swollen stomach. “Girls,” Ivar’s hand flicks out, then back in again, taking its place over your belly. “You won’t mind if I take my wife?”

But they argue like birds in a tree over a chunk of bread. They’ve already forgotten about you with their eyes square on his body-- he can feel them looking at him, debating his brother’s size based on his size, and there they go again. Ivar is grateful that he wasn’t challenged in getting erections, only keeping them. Revna doesn’t care for Hvitserk, not as much as her other half. His beard is patchy and he looks like a bitch! You did not! Look at Ivar!

“Hurry, they argue,” you rush toward the doors of Kattegat, imploring him to walk through his people gathered there. Ivar stops just outside of the grand double doors of his hall, turning his head toward the chariot waiting there.

“They may be annoying,” he mutters, but his hands wander, and find your beautifully braided hair underneath a finely set crown. “But they do beautiful braids. You look perfect.”

“You should let them do yours.”

“You expect me to sit with them?” You could see if now. How they would argue over the stupidest things-- like whose cock was bigger-- or ask how big Ragnar was. Even though, as word had it based on the women in the outskirts of town, he was a sight in his youth.

“I rather you do it. Come, get on first.” Ivar adds. You pluck up your skirts, mounting his chariot with ease.

“Where are we going?”

“On a ride,” Ivar gestures. “Have you told them?” he ponders. You hand off an empty bowl of berries to a thrall there, pulling the long train of your dress up preemptively. You rather not trip after all. You wait until Ivar has mounted before responding to his question-- only when he’d snapped his reins. Cool air whizzes through your hair as he rushes through town.

You glance between the rushing buildings where Hvitserk’s hut was. Thora’s home with Hvitserk billowed smoke. There was no point to telling them private secrets; They would always tell them. Most of Kattegat did. “Tell them what?”

“That I didn’t--” you cut him off.

“I don’t know what you mean, Ivar. Sigtryggr is your son.”

He snaps the reins a little harder, flying through the gate of the home and into the open well ridden roads. “He is.”

“Where are you taking me?” You ask, noting the flat fields that stretch on for miles. On the outskirts of town, the fields become rich forests, richer still with your favourite fruit: apples. You’d not realized that while the apples were not in harvest, their blooms were in full display now. In the trees were their soft, bouncy blooms that contrasted against the dull brown of Kattegat’s unkempt buildings. They had not been painted in some years and so the colours dulled some. There’s something intrinsically beautiful about the simplicity of nature. Ivar comes to a stop, stepping off to tie his horse off.

“I don’t remember there being so many wild apples in this area.”

“There weren’t,” Ivar hobbles over. “I imported them from York.”

The timing had been happenstance. When he came home from York to conquer Lagertha, he did not know that they would bloom in time for your pre-determined pregnancy. They could have not bloomed at all. He thanks Thor, his pendant beating on the exposed flesh of his chest, that it did. The god’s favor was his.

“A celebration for your conquest,” you tease, stopping above a tree that spoke to you in a particular way. “How sweet.”

He envelops you from behind, forgetting his crutch on the ground. It thunks among tall grass as his hands come around you. A small wind wafting through your hair, carrying wind to the fjord. You turn your head toward it-- toward him.

“A celebration of new life with my wife,” he cradles you in a warmth of security that is his arms. His term of celebration-- its better -- infinitely better than yours. You reach back and smooth your fingers over his coarse hair. A new crown, a new marriage, and above all-- a new life. There’s a lot of new this year, a lot of reasons to be happy and pray for a healthy delivery.

“Thank the Vanir.”

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